A Look At What ISPs Know About You - An FTC Staff Report

Quence

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EXECUTIVE SUMMARY

Approximately 93% of adults in the United States use the internet, and the average
consumer spends six hours and fifty-six minutes online each day. As the direct gateways to this
essential and ubiquitous tool, internet service providers (“ISPs”) can monitor and record their customers’
every online move, giving them the ability to surveil consumers and amass large amounts of information
on them as they go about their daily lives. In addition to providing internet, voice, and cable access,
these gatekeepers have also become major players in content creation and ad monetization.

Over the past few decades, the telecommunications industry has evolved into vertically-
integrated platforms that provide internet, cable, content, distribution, advertising, and analytics—all of
which has increased the volume of information available about consumers, improved the industry’s
insights into consumers’ behaviors, and strengthened the persistence of identifiers capable of tracking
users across platforms and assets.

Rapid consolidation has allowed ISPs to access and control a much
larger and broader cache of consumer data than ever before, without having to explain fully their
purposes for such collection and use, much less whether such collection and use is good for consumers.

In August 2019, the Federal Trade Commission issued identical
Orders to File Special Reports (“Orders”) under Section 6(b) of the FTC Act to the country’s six largest
ISPs (AT&T Mobility LLC, Cellco Partnership d/b/a Verizon Wireless, Charter Communications
Operating LLC, Comcast Cable Communications d/b/a Xfinity, T-Mobile US Inc., and Google Fiber
Inc.)—comprising approximately 98.8 % of the mobile internet market—and three advertising entities
affiliated with these ISPs (AT&T’s Appnexus Inc.—rebranded as Xandr—and Verizon’s Verizon
Online LLC and Oath Americas Inc.—rebranded as Verizon Media). The Orders sought
information from these ISPs as to their data collection and use practices, as well as any tools provided to
consumers to control these practices.

The companies’ narrativeresponses and several detailed data sets provide remarkable insight into how many of the ISPs in our
study surveil consumers, use and disseminate consumer data, and the privacy implications of such use
and dissemination.
--------------------------------------------------------------------

Key Findings

1. Collection and Use

- Some ISPs in Our Study Combine Data Across Product Lines. Three of the ISPs in
our study revealed that they combine information they receive from consumers across
their core services and at least some of their other services (e.g., TV and video streaming
services, home automation and security products, connected wearables, etc.).

- Some ISPs in Our Study Collect Data Unnecessary for the Provision of Internet
Services. Some of the ISPs in our study collect additional data from their customers that
is not necessary to provide ISP services in order to enhance their ability to advertise (e.g.,
app usage history).

- A Few ISPs in Our Study Use Web Browsing Data to Target Ads. Two of the ISPs in
our study stated that they use web browsing information to target ads to consumers, and
another reserves the right to use such information for advertising purposes.

- Many ISPs in Our Study Group Consumers Using Sensitive Characteristics to
Target Ads
. Many of the ISPs in our study serve targeted ads across the internet on
behalf of third parties. In doing so, they place consumers into segments that often reveal
sensitive information about consumers, allowing advertisers to target consumers by their
race, ethnicity, sexual orientation, economic status, political affiliations, or religious
beliefs.

- Some ISPs in Our Study Combine Personal, App Usage, and Web Browsing Data.
At least three ISPs in our study report combining consumers’ personal information, app
usage information, and/or browsing information for advertising purposes.

- A Significant Number of ISPs in Our Study Share Real-Time Location Data With
Third-Parties
. There is a trend in the ISP industry to offer real-time location data about
specific subscribers to the ISPs’ third-party customers.

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Privacy Practices

In response to the Orders, the ISPs in our study detailed their notice and disclosure; consent and
choice; and access, correction, and deletion practices. The ISP industry’s privacy practices raise
concerns in four key areas
:


1. Opacity. While several ISPs in our study tell consumers they will not sell their data,
they fail to reveal to consumers the myriad of ways that their data can be used,
transferred, or monetized outside of selling it, often burying such disclosures in the fine
print of their privacy policies. In addition, three of the ISPs in our study reserved the
right to share their subscribers’ personal information with their parent companies and
affiliates, which seems to undercut the promises not to sell personal information.

2. Illusory Choices. There is a trend in the ISP industry to purport to offer consumers
some choices with respect to the use of their data. However, problematic interfaces can
result in consumer confusion as to how to exercise these choices, potentially leading to
low opt-out rates.

3. Lack of Meaningful Access. Although many of the ISPs in our study purported to
offer consumers access to their information, the information was often either
indecipherable or nonsensical without context, potentially leading to low access
requests.

4. Data Retention and Deletion. While several of the ISPs in our study provided time
frames for deleting information, many asserted that they keep information as long as it
is needed for a business reason. However, many ISPs in our study have the ability to
define (or leave undefined) what constitutes a business reason, giving them virtually
unfettered discretion.

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Observations

As a result of the findings detailed above, we make the following four observations:

1) Many ISPs in Our Study Amass Large Pools of Sensitive Consumer Data. Several
ISPs in our study and their affiliates collect significant amounts of consumer information
from the range of products and services that they offer. The vertical integration of ISP
services with other services like home security and automation, video streaming, content
creation, advertising, email, search, wearables, and connected cars permits not only the
collection of large volumes of data, but also the collection of highly-granular data about
individual subscribers. Moreover, there is a trend in the ISP industry to combine the
subscriber data with additional information from third-party data brokers, resulting in
extremely granular insights and inferences into not just ISP subscribers but also their
families and households.

2) Several ISPs in Our Study Gather and Use Data in Ways Consumers Do Not Expect
and Could Cause Them Harm
. While consumers certainly expect ISPs to collect
certain information about the websites they visit as part of the provision of internet
services, they would likely be surprised at the extent of data that is collected and
combined for purposes unrelated to providing the service they request—in particular,
browsing data, television viewing history, contents of email and search, data from
connected devices, location information, and race and ethnicity data. More concerning,
this data could be used in a way that’s harmful to consumers, including by property
managers, bail bondsmen, bounty hunters, or those who would use it for discriminatory
purposes.

3) Although Many ISPs in Our Study Purport to Offer Consumers Choices, These
Choices are Often Illusory
. Although many of the ISPs in our study purported to offer
consumers choices, some of these choices were not offered clearly and indeed, nudged
consumers toward more data sharing.

4) Many ISPs in Our Study Can be At Least As Privacy-Intrusive as Large
Advertising Platforms
. Despite ISPs’ relative size in a market dominated by Google,
Facebook, and Amazon, the privacy challenges that permeate the advertising ecosystem
may be amplified by ISPs because: (1) many ISPs have access to 100% of consumers’
unencrypted internet traffic; (2) several ISPs are able to verify and know the identity of
their subscribers; (3) many ISPs can track consumers persistently across websites and
geographic locations; and (4) a significant number of ISPs have the capability to combine
the browsing and viewing history that they obtain from their subscribers with the large
amounts of information they obtain from the broad range of vertically integrated
products, services, and features that they offer.

 

FukkenUsername

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They literally already had algorithms that could predict almost everything based on the shit you did.
Now with AI just improving, they can probably start with a pre-crime division in a few months.
 

Quence

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They literally already had algorithms that could predict almost everything based on the shit you did.
Now with AI just improving, they can probably start with a pre-crime division in a few months.
Well, it would be nice if there was a federal government that actually did things to protect the privacy of its citizens by instituting highly restrictive data collection regulations on the tech sh*tbirds. Instead, we get a federal government that has turned the security services - FBI, CIA, DHS, SS - against the people. Thanks Paedo Joe and the filthy and vile Leftists.
 

FukkenUsername

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Well, it would be nice if there was a federal government that actually did things to protect the privacy of its citizens by instituting highly restrictive data collection regulations on the tech sh*tbirds. Instead, we get a federal government that has turned the security services - FBI, CIA, DHS, SS - against the people. Thanks Paedo Joe and the filthy and vile Leftists.
I dont think the government really know the extent of how good the private sector is at collecting and processing data.
Its not like they can even control or regulate anything anymore, and even if they could - they couldnt keep up because giant trillionaire companies poach all the best and the brightest.
Government workers are just midwits who cant keep up with the amphetamine fueled MIT-niggers working for google and facebook.
 

Quence

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I dont think the government really know the extent of how good the private sector is at collecting and processing data.
Its not like they can even control or regulate anything anymore, and even if they could - they couldnt keep up because giant trillionaire companies poach all the best and the brightest.
Government workers are just midwits who cant keep up with the amphetamine fueled MIT-niggers working for google and facebook.
That’s why Congress should pass sweeping and far-reaching data collection laws that would hamstring the tech companies’ ability to monetize personal data.
 

fleacollerindustry

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EXECUTIVE SUMMARY

Approximately 93% of adults in the United States use the internet, and the average
consumer spends six hours and fifty-six minutes online each day. As the direct gateways to this
essential and ubiquitous tool, internet service providers (“ISPs”) can monitor and record their customers’
every online move, giving them the ability to surveil consumers and amass large amounts of information
on them as they go about their daily lives. In addition to providing internet, voice, and cable access,
these gatekeepers have also become major players in content creation and ad monetization.

Over the past few decades, the telecommunications industry has evolved into vertically-
integrated platforms that provide internet, cable, content, distribution, advertising, and analytics—all of
which has increased the volume of information available about consumers, improved the industry’s
insights into consumers’ behaviors, and strengthened the persistence of identifiers capable of tracking
users across platforms and assets.

Rapid consolidation has allowed ISPs to access and control a much
larger and broader cache of consumer data than ever before, without having to explain fully their
purposes for such collection and use, much less whether such collection and use is good for consumers.

In August 2019, the Federal Trade Commission issued identical
Orders to File Special Reports (“Orders”) under Section 6(b) of the FTC Act to the country’s six largest
ISPs (AT&T Mobility LLC, Cellco Partnership d/b/a Verizon Wireless, Charter Communications
Operating LLC, Comcast Cable Communications d/b/a Xfinity, T-Mobile US Inc., and Google Fiber
Inc.)—comprising approximately 98.8 % of the mobile internet market—and three advertising entities
affiliated with these ISPs (AT&T’s Appnexus Inc.—rebranded as Xandr—and Verizon’s Verizon
Online LLC and Oath Americas Inc.—rebranded as Verizon Media). The Orders sought
information from these ISPs as to their data collection and use practices, as well as any tools provided to
consumers to control these practices.

The companies’ narrativeresponses and several detailed data sets provide remarkable insight into how many of the ISPs in our
study surveil consumers, use and disseminate consumer data, and the privacy implications of such use
and dissemination.
--------------------------------------------------------------------

Key Findings

1. Collection and Use

- Some ISPs in Our Study Combine Data Across Product Lines. Three of the ISPs in
our study revealed that they combine information they receive from consumers across
their core services and at least some of their other services (e.g., TV and video streaming
services, home automation and security products, connected wearables, etc.).

- Some ISPs in Our Study Collect Data Unnecessary for the Provision of Internet
Services. Some of the ISPs in our study collect additional data from their customers that
is not necessary to provide ISP services in order to enhance their ability to advertise (e.g.,
app usage history).

- A Few ISPs in Our Study Use Web Browsing Data to Target Ads. Two of the ISPs in
our study stated that they use web browsing information to target ads to consumers, and
another reserves the right to use such information for advertising purposes.

- Many ISPs in Our Study Group Consumers Using Sensitive Characteristics to
Target Ads
. Many of the ISPs in our study serve targeted ads across the internet on
behalf of third parties. In doing so, they place consumers into segments that often reveal
sensitive information about consumers, allowing advertisers to target consumers by their
race, ethnicity, sexual orientation, economic status, political affiliations, or religious
beliefs.

- Some ISPs in Our Study Combine Personal, App Usage, and Web Browsing Data.
At least three ISPs in our study report combining consumers’ personal information, app
usage information, and/or browsing information for advertising purposes.

- A Significant Number of ISPs in Our Study Share Real-Time Location Data With
Third-Parties
. There is a trend in the ISP industry to offer real-time location data about
specific subscribers to the ISPs’ third-party customers.

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Privacy Practices

In response to the Orders, the ISPs in our study detailed their notice and disclosure; consent and
choice; and access, correction, and deletion practices. The ISP industry’s privacy practices raise
concerns in four key areas
:


1. Opacity. While several ISPs in our study tell consumers they will not sell their data,
they fail to reveal to consumers the myriad of ways that their data can be used,
transferred, or monetized outside of selling it, often burying such disclosures in the fine
print of their privacy policies. In addition, three of the ISPs in our study reserved the
right to share their subscribers’ personal information with their parent companies and
affiliates, which seems to undercut the promises not to sell personal information.

2. Illusory Choices. There is a trend in the ISP industry to purport to offer consumers
some choices with respect to the use of their data. However, problematic interfaces can
result in consumer confusion as to how to exercise these choices, potentially leading to
low opt-out rates.

3. Lack of Meaningful Access. Although many of the ISPs in our study purported to
offer consumers access to their information, the information was often either
indecipherable or nonsensical without context, potentially leading to low access
requests.

4. Data Retention and Deletion. While several of the ISPs in our study provided time
frames for deleting information, many asserted that they keep information as long as it
is needed for a business reason. However, many ISPs in our study have the ability to
define (or leave undefined) what constitutes a business reason, giving them virtually
unfettered discretion.

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Observations

As a result of the findings detailed above, we make the following four observations:

1) Many ISPs in Our Study Amass Large Pools of Sensitive Consumer Data. Several
ISPs in our study and their affiliates collect significant amounts of consumer information
from the range of products and services that they offer. The vertical integration of ISP
services with other services like home security and automation, video streaming, content
creation, advertising, email, search, wearables, and connected cars permits not only the
collection of large volumes of data, but also the collection of highly-granular data about
individual subscribers. Moreover, there is a trend in the ISP industry to combine the
subscriber data with additional information from third-party data brokers, resulting in
extremely granular insights and inferences into not just ISP subscribers but also their
families and households.

2) Several ISPs in Our Study Gather and Use Data in Ways Consumers Do Not Expect
and Could Cause Them Harm
. While consumers certainly expect ISPs to collect
certain information about the websites they visit as part of the provision of internet
services, they would likely be surprised at the extent of data that is collected and
combined for purposes unrelated to providing the service they request—in particular,
browsing data, television viewing history, contents of email and search, data from
connected devices, location information, and race and ethnicity data. More concerning,
this data could be used in a way that’s harmful to consumers, including by property
managers, bail bondsmen, bounty hunters, or those who would use it for discriminatory
purposes.

3) Although Many ISPs in Our Study Purport to Offer Consumers Choices, These
Choices are Often Illusory
. Although many of the ISPs in our study purported to offer
consumers choices, some of these choices were not offered clearly and indeed, nudged
consumers toward more data sharing.

4) Many ISPs in Our Study Can be At Least As Privacy-Intrusive as Large
Advertising Platforms
. Despite ISPs’ relative size in a market dominated by Google,
Facebook, and Amazon, the privacy challenges that permeate the advertising ecosystem
may be amplified by ISPs because: (1) many ISPs have access to 100% of consumers’
unencrypted internet traffic; (2) several ISPs are able to verify and know the identity of
their subscribers; (3) many ISPs can track consumers persistently across websites and
geographic locations; and (4) a significant number of ISPs have the capability to combine
the browsing and viewing history that they obtain from their subscribers with the large
amounts of information they obtain from the broad range of vertically integrated
products, services, and features that they offer.

1700365939237401.jpg


E: I had to ask ChatGPT to summarize what @Quence was blathering on about, and I got:..

Summary:

  • ISPs surveil consumers extensively, combining data across services.
  • Some ISPs collect unnecessary data for targeted ads.
  • Privacy concerns include illusory choices and lack of meaningful access.
  • ISPs can be as intrusive as major advertising platforms.
  • Study emphasizes the need for transparency and responsible data practices by ISPs.
But like... duh? Who doesn't know this?
 
Last edited:

Quence

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E: I had to ask ChatGPT to summarize what @Quence was blathering on about, and I got:..

Summary:

  • ISPs surveil consumers extensively, combining data across services.
  • Some ISPs collect unnecessary data for targeted ads.
  • Privacy concerns include illusory choices and lack of meaningful access.
  • ISPs can be as intrusive as major advertising platforms.
  • Study emphasizes the need for transparency and responsible data practices by ISPs.
But like... duh? Who doesn't know this?
The FTC report is much more nuanced than that.
 

FukkenUsername

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That’s why Congress should pass sweeping and far-reaching data collection laws that would hamstring the tech companies’ ability to monetize personal data.
Yeah, im sure they'll get right on that.
 

fleacollerindustry

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The FTC report is much more nuanced than that.
Yeah but who is gonna read all that shit? That's why ChatGPT exists.

Here's a slightly more detailed overview of that article for anyone who is not in the mood to deal with a Charlie Dickens book:
  • Executive Summary: Highlights the prevalence of internet usage, the evolution of ISPs into influential entities, and the concerning lack of transparency in data accessibility.
  • Key Findings:
    • Collection and Use: Reveals ISPs' practices of merging data, collecting unnecessary information, and using sensitive traits for targeted advertising.
    • Privacy Practices:
      1. Opacity: Raises concerns about ISPs claiming not to sell data while obscuring alternative uses in fine print.
      2. Illusory Choices: Points out the trend of offering choices with unclear interfaces, potentially leading to low opt-out rates.
      3. Lack of Meaningful Access: Highlights the challenge of deciphering indecipherable or nonsensical information provided by ISPs.
      4. Data Retention and Deletion: Raises concerns about ISPs asserting broad discretion for retaining information, despite setting deletion time frames.
    • Observations: The following four observations are made based on the findings detailed above.
      1. Highlights ISPs and affiliates amassing significant consumer data, combining it with third-party information for detailed insights.
      2. Points out ISPs gathering data beyond consumer expectations, raising concerns about potential harm and discriminatory use.
      3. Notes that consumer choices offered by ISPs might not be clear, potentially nudging users toward increased data sharing.
      4. Recognizes that despite their size, ISPs can rival major advertising platforms in privacy intrusion, thanks to extensive data access.

...

IMHO this is what happens when, in order to deal with bringing internet to the masses, companies have to deal with Federal, State, County, City, and sometimes even neighborhood or private property regulations... and you ultimately get a tangled mess that stifles competition. Consider, say, South Korea, where ISPs got it easy with just one rule-maker—the Korean government; I don't think it's a coincidence that their internet is considered to be some of the best in the world (Now whether or not a Korean ISP actually does follow that single set of rules, versus just paying off Korean politicians, is another story.)

Now I love our federal system of government because it allows people different avenues to seek justice and equity in our lives. But the problem with it is when these layers of rules end up choking competition like this. It forces situations where the only ISPs that can exist are either the big billion dollar ISPs who own all the cables, calls all the shots and advertises on all the TV networks... and the small town ISPs which rent out those very cables. Anything inbetween ultimately gets bought up by the billion dollar ISPs in order to have a stronger foothold in that region.

I'm not saying we should let corporations off the hook ("those poor, defenseless corporations being bullied by the evil government!") – far from it. But it's clear that this multi-level rule game isn't doing any favors for competition, ensuring that the only ISPs that can exist are the major ones that have the money and power to navigate through government regulations but also the power to impose their will upon us. I don't know how to fix this, however... but whatever ends up happening to reduce/eliminate "Big ISP" and open it up to competition from smaller ISPs, I feel like it'll involve estabilishing the internet as a public utility (alongside with gas, water and electricity).
 

FukkenUsername

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That's why ChatGPT exists.
lol
that is a charitable way of looking at it.
Everyone knew even before computers that AI was an astronomically bad idea. Yet as soon as we had the capability of making it, we did.
Me saying "we" is even more charitable.
 

Gamergay

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everybody knows this already are you gonna make a long novel about google as well?
 

Quence

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Yeah, im sure they'll get right on that.
Well, if the Republican’ts want to stop losing elections, they might proffer legislation that cripples big tech from monetizing people’s private information. Screwgle and Faceberg both make most of their money in that manner and, not coincidentally, they both fund external operations that compromise election integrity.

Here's a slightly more detailed overview of that article for anyone who is not in the mood to deal with a Charlie Dickens book:
  • Executive Summary: Highlights the prevalence of internet usage, the evolution of ISPs into influential entities, and the concerning lack of transparency in data accessibility.
  • Key Findings: blah blah blah
That’s okay even if it still misses some of the finer points. But most importantly it is devoid of colour. My OP was beautifully constructed with snazzy colours that kept the reader very interested.

IMHO this is what happens when, in order to deal with bringing internet to the masses, companies have to deal with Federal, State, County, City, and sometimes even neighborhood or private property regulations... and you ultimately get a tangled mess that stifles competition. Consider, say, South Korea, where ISPs got it easy with just one rule-maker—the Korean government; I don't think it's a coincidence that their internet is considered to be some of the best in the world (Now whether or not a Korean ISP actually does follow that single set of rules, versus just paying off Korean politicians, is another story.)

Now I love our federal system of government because it allows people different avenues to seek justice and equity in our lives. But the problem with it is when these layers of rules end up choking competition like this. It forces situations where the only ISPs that can exist are either the big billion dollar ISPs who own all the cables, calls all the shots and advertises on all the TV networks... and the small town ISPs which rent out those very cables. Anything inbetween ultimately gets bought up by the billion dollar ISPs in order to have a stronger foothold in that region.

I'm not saying we should let corporations off the hook ("those poor, defenseless corporations being bullied by the evil government!") – far from it. But it's clear that this multi-level rule game isn't doing any favors for competition, ensuring that the only ISPs that can exist are the major ones that have the money and power to navigate through government regulations but also the power to impose their will upon us. I don't know how to fix this, however... but whatever ends up happening to reduce/eliminate "Big ISP" and open it up to competition from smaller ISPs, I feel like it'll involve estabilishing the internet as a public utility (alongside with gas, water and electricity).
While I agree that there are far too many regulations imposed on businesses in the US, it’s important to remember that the big ISPs became enormous because the government ‘watchdog’ - FTC (Federal Trade Commission) - allowed them to gobble up all of the regional and smaller ISPs. And of course commensurate with their new and dominate positions in the marketplace, those ISPs promptly raised prices and have continued to do so at an egregious rate.

So there was a point where regulations ON THE BOOKS could have been followed by the FTC so that competition was not obliterated in that communications sector of the economy. But of course the FTC, unfortunately, is a political animal and the people appointed to the board are doing the bidding of their political masters.
 

fleacollerindustry

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Everyone knew even before computers that AI was an astronomically bad idea. Yet as soon as we had the capability of making it, we did.
Just putting all this out there: AI is a tool like all others, and like all other new tools that have come along, the ones complaining are narcissists who think their (soon to be worthless) skill is SO IMPORTANT that they equate its obselecence with the dooming of a great and unique art.... maybe even harming mankind itself. But the ultimate irony in all this is that those bemoaning new tech almost always gained their original skills because some other new tech from years prior came along to made their work viable in the first place. All skills were built on the shoulders (or bones) of prior ones.

For example, I started my videography career learning on linear tape editing and Betamax, but I quickly switched over to the nonlinear editing system in the early-2000s. However, I remember when SO MANY "traditional" videographers called nonlinear editing the end of videography because now "anyone" could make a movie. And how DARE normal people be allowed to make movies?? And yet the irony of videographers complaining about new tech as the end of another prestiege career (actual proper film editing) was completely lost on them.

Complaints about new tech usually come from those who want to guard the exclusivity of their skillset; their claims that new tech is destroying the world come only because they feel threatened by others entering their field, they come off like the survival of their skills is a benefit to humanity (how narcissistic). Take the original career gatekeepers—the Luddites—textile workers alarmed that their skills would lose value with automation. And yet despite all their complaining, the world survived; no one mourns the loss of textile jobs, you never hear in the news "200 years later, the world is worse off due to automated textiles." In the end those who who spent nine, ten or eleven years complaining that their FORTRAN punch-card writing skills have become obsolete could've spent that time learning a new skill like web design and PYTHON (frankly, most have).

I'll put it another way: maybe AI truly IS bad for humanity. But the arguments made against AI are almost word-for-word the same ones made against textile machines, non-linear video editing, and any other new tech that has come along. What makes those arguments different this time when it comes to AI?

...

Also: "everyone before computers knew AI was a bad idea" ... The only ones who had any clue AI would be bad in an the era before computers were sci-fi writers... the same writers who depicted the year 2001 as a world of ray guns, flying cars, human travel using pneumatic tubes, and Sunsweet prunes in tiny mini-packs... yet not the internet, at least something beyond the vague "school classes in the year 2001 will be done over electrical-radionic telephone learning devices" ideas, and certainly not the long term social effects of such a technology. I therefore question the ability of anyone from before computers to properly disseminate the actual dangers and virtues of AI to their audience, let alone account for humanity's ability to adapt to new tech like AI without it destroying itself.

It's always stuff like this when it comes to AI:

We're 150+ years after the Second Industrial Revolution and we've yet to see humanity's immediate self-destruction via new technology... oh sure we've gotten close, but we've always managed to find a way to prevent it, even pull back from the brink. Alternatively, I've hear people say crap like "well we haven't crashed, but so hasn't someone who just drove off a cliff". Again, in that case we've been falling off that cliff for 150+ years... just like the Second Coming of Jesus Christ, I have my doubt anyone saying we're doomed knows what they're talking about.

Now I'm not claiming we won't get burned by new tech, I have my doubts it'll ever "destroy" us. Frankly, the burning will simply teach us how to live with it better, as we always have done so.
 
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